Tuesday, December 1, 2009

Before The BIg Speech on Afghanistan

The contents of which we pretty much already know at this point (thus raising the question why we still have to listen to Obama), a whole bunch of people are protesting the expected surge. One group is Code Pink:



Another person who thinks we care what he has to say is Michael Moore, that arrogant, sanctimonious windbag (okay, okay - I admit it - I own Fahrenheit 9/11 and used to like him), who seems to think he is both a military strategist and a member of the Intelligence Community. He wrote Obama a letter laying it all out for prior to the speechifying. Moore says Obama should NOT listen to the generals on the ground regarding Afghanistan because we are a civilian nation. In other words, he thinks the generals should be told what to do by the likes of Moore, apparently, as opposed to listening to the people who are actually in theater. I guess Moore missed it when Obama was campaigning and made the claim that Agfhanistan was going to be his primary focus in the War on Terror. Oh, right - no one actually listened to what he said, just the melodic, dreamy way in which he said, it.

Excuse me - I have to go throw up now.

Don't take my word for it. Here's Obama in his own words (you won't have to wait long for it):



It gets better. Moore, with his apparent connections to the Intelligence Community, claims there are fewer than 100 members of Al Qaeda still in Afghanistan. Now, I know a bunch of people have gone to Pakistan. I get that. But, where the hell is Moore getting this information, which, if true, I assume might be classified? I'm just wondering.

Te letter goes on (and on). Feel free to click HERE if you care to read any more of it.

You can watch the speech tonight, if you wish. Or you can read this NY Times article and get the scope. I can bottom line it for you: 30,000 troops over 6 months, not as many as Gen. McChrystal wanted, but big surprise there. And, Obama will set a timeline for when the US will start pulling back those reinforcements. You're welcome!

Bottom line, Mr. Moore, and Code Pink - Obama s actually keeping one campaign promise, even though he dragged his feet for months before he did it. Believe you me, no one is more surprised than I am. And maybe now you know you should have actually paid attention to the "Words, Just Words" that were coming out of his mouth during the campaign and not being lulled into your Obama LaLaLand of Happy Rainbow Unicorns. Just a thought.

Oh, just in case you don't know this about me, I am not a war hawk, not by a long shot. But on this, going after the people who attacked us, I think we are right, Code Pink and Michael Moore notwithstanding. Do I wish we had accomplished our mission there already? Absolutely. Should we leave before we do? No. That sends a dangerous message - people can attack us, and after a while, we'll just give up on finding them. These are patient people. They will wait until our guard is down. I don't see how we can afford not to continue in Afghanistan until the job is done. Can you?

15 comments:

Nellie said...

Hi Rev Amy,

Just wanted to provide a quick answer on my way out to your question:

"I don't see how we can afford not to continue in Afghanistan until the job is done. Can you?"

I KNOW we must continue, but I seriously question WH "Leadership" and intent.

On my way for pre-operation testing for operation to be done Dec. 9th (my second operation this year)

I do have a couple of links that explain my qualifiers to your very important question. Hopefully I will have enough energy to get the info to Larry also.

Bottom line-Obama is double dealing in AFPAK, and I am deeply concerned about our troops safety and for our intelligence people on the borders.

Again Amy, your fabulous work is deeply appreciated, and you and the way you present material are important in keeping me somewhat sane this year. My heartfelt Thanks.

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Hey, Nellie -

I am so sorry to hear that you have to have another operation this year! My thoughts and prayers will certainly be with you on the 9th.

Thank you for your kind words, too. I truly appreciate it, Nellie - thank you!

And excellent comment. I think you are absolutely right. The breaking news from CNN pretty much says it all - Obama is going to set a 3 yr time frame before withdrawing. So, he is essentially telling Al Qaeda just how long they'll have to hide before we are gone.

Sigh. You are so right abt the "leadership" issue. He proves it every single day...When you get a chance, I'd love to see the links.

Thanks again, Nellie. Please let me know how you are doing...

Mary Ellen said...

I made it to 1:44 in the video before I got the dry heaves. I just can't stomach that man.

Regarding Afghanistan--I'm not sure what to think. One part of me believes that Obama should listen to the Generals on the ground and the troops because they are there, experiencing first hand what the situation is. What really bothers me is that Obama waited so long and while he was, we had quite a few American casualties and deaths. If he's going to keep them there...they need back up, not a bunch of excuses as to why he didn't make a decision.

The other thing that bothers me is that Obama said that he will have all our troops out in three years. Oh...wait, that's exactly when he would be running for re-election. Coincidence? I think not.

Obama plays politics with our military just like Bush did. He will take whatever advice suits his needs, and not the needs of our country or military.

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

ROTFLMAO - Mary Ellen, that's abt as far as I got, too. I muttered, "oh, shut up..." Maybe it's because I had to look at a few others first. Nah, I just couldn't take it anymore.

Obama campaigned on listening to the "generals on the ground" on Afghanistan, and then, yes, drug his feet along for months now. You are quite right - there have been a number of casualties since then.

As far as I can tell, the mission is not yet complete. Even though I hate war, and the "collateral" (ugh - like that really masks the number of innocent civilian deaths), to leave with the job unfinished sends a terrible message. These terrorists have incredible patience - three years is nothing to them.

And you are SO right - Obama playing politics with our soldiers' lives coordinating the withdrawal date to his re-election bid. No doubt, he is trying to appease his Code Pink/Michael Moore crowd with that talk.

Makes me wonder how our troops feel abt all of this. Do they feel like pawns in his political realm? How do THEY feel abt a set time-line?

So, are you going to watch him? I have no plans to, myself. Between the Bobble head business, the way he talks, and his big plan, my head would explode.

I still cannot believe this guy - with all of 143 days in the US Senate under his belt - is our president. He is SO out of his league.

We shoulda had Hillary. She'd have made a decision early on, and not stuck her finger up in the air to see which way the wind was blowing, either. Sheesh.

Logistics Monster said...

Rev. - Michael Moore is probably right about not very many terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan anymore...they are here inside our borders - I'm convinced of it. As for watching Bambi - couldn't do it right now because I plan on watching him later on. It's taken me over a year to talk myself into watching his speeches - because I just have to for the monster.

I posted a similar piece on CP - I fell off my freakin' chair when I watched her because I could not stop laughing. Unfortunately, it's like watching a battered woman in denial. Too bad, too.

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Oh, my friend - you are a better woman than I am! I'll wait for the transcript! :-D

Actually, I'll have something on that perspective tomorrow - al Qaeda, that is. Unfortunately, I think we may both be right - I just don't see these people going away any time soon, in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Europe, the US...You know?

DT, I used to get stuff from Code Pink all the time, but they have gone around the bend.

Btw, thanks to you, I have signed up to get videos from Rep. McCotter. I can't believe I have never seen him speak before. Mighty impressive man. (We might use the video you had over at NQ, with a H/t and link to you, of course!)

sonicninjakitty said...

Hi Amy,

I tried to leave a comment before, but think it didn't go through....

Anyhoo--I was wondering if you would read this article and tell me what you think of it: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15947

(In the bibliography, there is a video called Beyond Treason listed. It is available for viewing on YouTube and I highly recommend it. It's about an hour long. The information about depleted uranium is more horrifying than most anything else I've ever seen. It scrambles human DNA and OUR GOVERNMENT KNEW THIS.)

Like Nellie, I seriously question leadership and intent, but of the whole government--Ob-ush or whomever--it matters not what their outside names are. The powers that be don't care if it's a "D" or "R" as long as they remain in business. And military and CIA officers are in the profession of war, so I really doubt they can see the war issue from a different viewpoint easily, if at all.

It all comes down to fear and money. Money for growing government (and power) and for the cronies in the business of destroying and rebuilding--what a recession proof industry they are in, hmm. Fear is what the government instills in us so they can keep the cash machine pumping.

How can we continue? Immoral is immoral, period. It is so distressing.

As I type, Obama is saying 'the fight will not be short and it will extend beyond Iraq and Afghanistan'. Amy--this group in power is crazy. They are setting up for going into other places. They don't mean anything they say about peace, prosperity, human dignity, respect and "the moral source of America's authority".

WTH?!?!?!?

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Thanks, Sonic - I appreciate it (and sorry abt the comments - I had to set it for me to review them first because of some of the heinous comments Obots left). I will definitely take a loot at the article.

I wonder abt our leadership, too. I confess, I usually refer to Obama as "Obushma." You may know that I have long thought there was very little difference between the two.

WTH, indeed? So, are we going into Pakistan next?

Great point abt the money and the letters by the name. It

Hmmm - come to think of it, when Obama gives a time line, don't we ALL know exactly how long the fight will be? Sorry - couldn't resist.

I'll get to the article now.

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Sonic, thanks for the article. I can see his point on some of the issues mentioned. Nothing is ever black and white, though.

So it isn't like all Dems are opposed to the war and all Reps are in favor of it, etc., etc., and terrorism IS a real and present threat, not just to us, but other countries.

So, it begs the question, how do we protect ourselves as a nation against those threats? How do we respond when we are attacked without being referred to as "heavy hand enforcers"?

Not that I'm happy we are still in Iraq - I am not (another promise unfulfilled by Obama). I never thought we should be going in there in the first place, for that matter.

I know Afghanistan is an extraordinarily difficult place to wage a war successfully, and it would seem we have not done it well. So, what is the best solution, then? Throw up our hands and leave? Send in more troops? Give a timeline to everyone around the globe? Change strategies? What is the most effective course there?

As for the article - it seemed to have pieces that were verifiable and pieces that weren't. Like what kind of proof does the author have that Pat Tillman was going to blow the lid off the situation there, and was killed by the gov't to keep him quiet? That is an extremely grave charge to make without concrete evidence to support the claim (and of course, Tillman can't do it himself).

I do think the author is right that following the money, in any of these situations, whether it's the war or health care, is telling indeed.

I'm pretty beat, so that's it for now. I appreciate your thoughtful comment, and hope my response isn't too disjointed (from being tired).

sonicninjakitty said...

Thank you, Amy. I appreciate your insights and trust your ability to be fair and honest. It is a rare thing to be able to say in this blogging world, but I really mean it.

I know some of the things in that article (and a lot of anti-war sites I visit) seem 'out there'. For example, the claim about Pat Tillman. But all I know about Pat Tillman is that the government lied about the circumstances of his death at first. That is a fact. Why? Any government that lies has something to cover up, for sure.

It is difficult to discern propaganda from truth when you are on the inside of it. Are we or aren't we on the inside of it? That's the danger. And our government has already propagated one giant lie that has hurt us tremendously and enriched their cronies handsomely: weapons of mass destruction. Let us never forget that betrayal.

As far as I can figure, the same type of thing is going on in Afghanistan--the place is rich in natural resources and the opium trade has increased steadily since 2001. Follow the $$$.

All I'm saying is we should doubt first, then move with extreme caution (the caution needed to protect us from our leaders, that is). Our military is for protecting our borders, not for preemptive strikes. That's why we went into Afghanistan. The government instills fear in us so it can remain there.

The US military is history's most terrific killing machine. I can't believe in 8 years they have not been able to find Bin Laden. It's like saying the NY Yankees couldn't beat a little league team. It makes no sense. It makes me think he's been left alone on purpose.

If the US pulled out, and instead channeled the money given currently to contractors towards teachers, clinics, and small businesses in Afghanistan, they would be far better off.

Nellie said...

Hi Rev Amy,

Thank you for your kind words, and your prayers are much appreciated. I am certain you have more influence w/ heaven than I do.

The three major links are below. I did more indepth for Larry, but in all honesty, I do not know if or even how this information should be made public.

US puts its faith in Pakistan's military
http://atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KK06Df02.html

This next link provides good background info:

Q&A: Pakistan's Waziristan challenge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8296245.stm

This link shows how Pakistani Army, while taking OUR tax dollars is outsourcing the fight:

Strange bedfellows: Islamists and army join forces against insurgents http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/21/good-taliban-pakistan-army-attack

I know you have the intelligence and savy to read carefully and connect the dots. Bottom line for me concerns our troops and the intelligence officials working in the border areas.

My Yankee common sense says it is best to leave it to Larry and the "experts" how much, if at all, this information should be made public. My heart and soul are so outraged I want to blow Obama out of the water and put it on FOX news, and the military blogs.

Please use you own discretion on whether to publish all or part of this comment. Times like these I WISH I had training as a CIA analyst = perhaps then I would not feel so conflicted.

If you want to contact me directly my email is

nellie_s1@verizon.com

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Sonic, You are absolutely right that we should be cautious when it comes to actions our gov't wants to take. I couldn't agree more. That is especially true when our country wants to wage war. War is a serious business, and true military leaders, like Wes Clark, for example, are loath to go to war unless absolutely necessary. So when we DO go into war, yes, we have to follow the money, and see what the real intent is (like oil in Iraq, opium trade in Afghanistan).

You are right abt Tillman and the gov't cover-up. I remember well reading how devastated his family was when they realized the gov't had been less than forthcoming abt the details of Tillman's death.

You raise very good, provocative questions, Sonic - especially the propaganda one.

As you know, I am an ardent Hillary fan. I remember well her discussions abt the two wars in which we are involved, and how best to get out of one, and win in the other. I know she is for this surge, as is Sec. Gates. Of all the politicians in power, she is the one I trust the most. She's going to be testifying abt this Weds. morning, and I will be very interested in her answers as to why she supports this at this time.

I also remember Clinton talking abt the difficulty in withdrawing from a country, doing it in such a way that the country doesn't descend into chaos, and a way to protect our citizens working there, abt whom we hear very little.

I don't claim to have all the answers abt this situation - and I do think our gov't has the tendency to ignore the will of the people. It is hard not to be cynical at this point, I have to admit, and harder still to trust what any of them say.

I appreciate the dialogue, and the food for thought. Thanks, Sonic, and thank you for the compliment. I really appreciate that!

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

Oops - Sonic, I meant to say, too, that the issue of the Taliban returning to control is disturbing to say the least. Certainly, in terms of the opium trade, but the effect that has on women and children in that country is very problematic.

Nellie -

Thanks for the links. I will get to them this morning after I finish my post for the day. I am sure Larry will appreciate your sending them to him, too (he is currently traveling, as you may know from his post).

I appreciate your faith in me to discern what is appropriate or not for publication, and will certainly look with as clear an eye as I can at the substance of the issues contained therein.

Both you and Sonic hook me with the use of the word "Yankee," especially as it relates to baseball! :-)

And Nellie, absolutely, you will be in my prayers.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments!

SFIndie said...

I didn’t watch his speech, Rev, I just couldn’t. I just can’t stand that man, I have a physical reaction when I hear his voice...and it sure isn’t a tingle up my leg! blech.

I’m not surprised at his decision, though. It once again shows his complete lack of commitment to anything. Not enough troops into Afghanistan to be effective (enough being what the generals deem necessary), and then telling all the world how long he intends to keep the troops there (okay, Taliban and Al Qaeda, off you go to the hills for hiding, just hang loose for a couple years, okay? you can come back and continue your murderous ways then). So, where’s the commitment? Where is he standing up for anything?

Well, I may be wrong about the commitment thing, though. His commitment is always, first and foremost, to himself. When it comes time to withdraw the troops, with the Taliban and Al Qaeda safely in hiding, he can use “mission accomplished” in Afghanistan as his reelection campaign slogan. He’ll just need to make sure he gets the timing right...wouldn’t want any violence before the election!

And it took him how many months to come up with this great strategy?

Funny how so many people are upset with him for his decision. Were they not listening to him during the campaign?? That’s a rhetorical question - we know they were too busy swooning and drowning in his charisma and getting all caught up in the Hope! and Change!

I’m not a hawk, by any means. And I have no idea if we can accomplish anything permanent in Afghanistan; the Russians spent 9 years there before they finally withdrew. And, if we’re really going to go after the masterminds of 9/11 we need to go after Saudi Arabia, as we know it was mostly Saudi nationals who were the perpetrators (and here’s where I unveil myself as a 9/11 Truther - I absolutely believe our government was complicit in the attacks and that’s why Saudi nationals and the bin Laden family were allowed to fly out of the country when all other flights were grounded). But we’re tied financially to Saudi Arabia and we’re tied financially to Afghanistan - oil and opium. So, we won’t touch Saudi and we’ll make a haphazard half-assed attempt in Afghanistan.

And I’m rambling again. Funny how talking about The Revered-But-Becoming-Slightly-Tarnished-One does that to me!

Both Medea Benjamin and Michael Moore are legends in their own minds. I used to have respect for both of them, but they’ve become obnoxious pests whose egos supercede any common sense they might possess.

Can’t wait to hear the spin on his speech.

Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy said...

SF, you crack me up - I couldn't agree more, from the not being able to actually listen to this man speak (and hell, one needs Dramamine not to get motion sickness from the constant head-swiveling), to the Saudi nationals getting out of the country.

I have to wonder - if you see the post I just put up abt the Anthrax labs in Afghanistan - if that is not another good reason for us to be in there, even though I am far from being a hawk myself. That is mighty scary stuff, I tell ya...

Back to the speech, I understand that it was more of Obama's, "Me, me, me, I, I, I, Myself, Myself, Myself" and on and on. What a surprise.

How abt Chris Matthews referring to West Point as an "enemy camp"?? Why this man still has a job ANYWAY is astonishing to me, but really - to insult some of the best and brightest young people in the country who have pledged themselves to serving in our military, is reprehensible. He is just nuts, that guy.

We gotta get to Malta, SF!! The sooner the better, that's for sure. I tell you what - if I ever win the lottery (which means I need to start playing the darn thing more), I'll share the wealth so you can begin your retirement! :-)

Great comment - thank you!